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Post by texasbred on Sept 25, 2019 7:32:29 GMT -6
It's somewhat apples and oranges. What BHB and cr75 are really speaking about is real estate expansion. Buy a piece, put some sweat equity into it, sell for a profit and expand to a bigger piece. Wash, rinse, repeat. Very effective tool for creating wealth if you understand location and can continually improve your position. Having said that, it would appear the cattle are a nice side to that and complements it well on rural ground. I think what several on here and at CT are saying is this: it is extremely difficult in today's cattle market to purchase ground (to start new or expand) have the liquid income to stock said ground with cattle, cover the costs of the land loan and cover operational costs. I believe there are some places left in the country it can be done, just not many and a person pursuing that would have to be willing to relocate to those areas. (Presuming the person has the ability to secure a loan of that magnitude and has the finacial liquidity to cover the down payment to secure the loan). One group secures their wealth primarily in real estate improvement and expansion(cattle secondary and supplemental). The other group desires to run a functional cattle operation and not as interested in real estate expansion. I do appreciate how one option can help grow and advance the other and is obviously a possible solution if one is interested in real estate sales and acquisition. Operating off borrowed money sure makes it a lot harder and finding "good" land for $3,000 an acre is almost impossible. I refuse to move to a shythole to live thinking it's going to change and property values are going to go through the roof. We can talk about it all day but it just doesn't happen very often. Guess I'm one of those naysayers. |
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Post by cross on Sept 25, 2019 9:47:19 GMT -6
I’ve bought and sold a few places.
I’ve got one now I had planned on keeping and put way too much into it.
I read property values should appreciate 50-100% over a 10 year period, but where this place is located the land values are based on production. We don’t have the city people coming out and buying up recreational property like I was used to in west Texas where the deer hunters in the city would pay well for a place to hunt.
It has a nice fishing pond, good water fowl hunting and a good cow place.
It’ll run a cow to 5-6 acres and feed hay 4 months out of the year.
I bought it cheap I thought but turns out I paid about what land sells for in the area.
I paid 1100 an acre but I’ll need 1400 an acre to turn a profit and nothing sells for that in the area.
I guess I’ll keep cows on it to make the payments and wait and see if land values increase
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Post by cowrancher75 on Sept 25, 2019 13:31:50 GMT -6
It's somewhat apples and oranges. What BHB and cr75 are really speaking about is real estate expansion. Buy a piece, put some sweat equity into it, sell for a profit and expand to a bigger piece. Wash, rinse, repeat. Very effective tool for creating wealth if you understand location and can continually improve your position. Having said that, it would appear the cattle are a nice side to that and complements it well on rural ground. I think what several on here and at CT are saying is this: it is extremely difficult in today's cattle market to purchase ground (to start new or expand) have the liquid income to stock said ground with cattle, cover the costs of the land loan and cover operational costs. I believe there are some places left in the country it can be done, just not many and a person pursuing that would have to be willing to relocate to those areas. (Presuming the person has the ability to secure a loan of that magnitude and has the finacial liquidity to cover the down payment to secure the loan). One group secures their wealth primarily in real estate improvement and expansion(cattle secondary and supplemental). The other group desires to run a functional cattle operation and not as interested in real estate expansion. I do appreciate how one option can help grow and advance the other and is obviously a possible solution if one is interested in real estate sales and acquisition. Operating off borrowed money sure makes it a lot harder and finding "good" land for $3,000 an acre is almost impossible. I refuse to move to a shythole to live thinking it's going to change and property values are going to go through the roof. We can talk about it all day but it just doesn't happen very often. Guess I'm one of those naysayers.
there is lots of ground for 3k / ac that is very nice and not in a 'shithole'. I know of good ground for 2500 an acre that will run a pair to 2 acres.
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Post by highgrit on Sept 25, 2019 14:04:52 GMT -6
Operating off borrowed money sure makes it a lot harder and finding "good" land for $3,000 an acre is almost impossible. I refuse to move to a shythole to live thinking it's going to change and property values are going to go through the roof. We can talk about it all day but it just doesn't happen very often. Guess I'm one of those naysayers.
there is lots of ground for 3k / ac that is very nice and not in a 'shithole'. I know of good ground for 2500 an acre that will run a pair to 2 acres.
Year round? Some years I have run better than a pair to the acre this year I need 40 acres to the pair. This is 2 bad years in a row for us I'm sure glad everything is paid for. |
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Post by cowrancher75 on Sept 25, 2019 15:19:47 GMT -6
there is lots of ground for 3k / ac that is very nice and not in a 'shithole'. I know of good ground for 2500 an acre that will run a pair to 2 acres.
Year round? Some years I have run better than a pair to the acre this year I need 40 acres to the pair. This is 2 bad years in a row for us I'm sure glad everything is paid for. feed hay 45 days a year.
cheap feed around as well if needed.
i'm looking for a place where i can put a pivot just incase of drought.
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Post by backhoeboogie on Sept 26, 2019 7:44:07 GMT -6
Operating off borrowed money sure makes it a lot harder and finding "good" land for $3,000 an acre is almost impossible. I refuse to move to a shythole to live thinking it's going to change and property values are going to go through the roof. We can talk about it all day but it just doesn't happen very often. Guess I'm one of those naysayers.
This town I live in has become that hole. Too many people moving in. Everyone wants to get in your business. Traffic is a real problem since I am out west of the town. All new roads go on the Fort Worth side. The best farm land is now Walmart parking lot, Home Depot or else a subdivision. When you get two inches of rain you get flooding because the houses are all jam together and everything is paved. Water cannot get to the ground to soak in. And they keep building.
People in my neighborhood move out on 5 acres and get 10 dogs. I've bought everything that surrounded me but still get their dogs on me.
my thoughts are to liquidate it all at retirement and move Keep the rentals and keep them with a management company.
There was nice place in Aquilla I probably should have bought but that's two hours away. Its hard to manage cattle from that far and calve year round.
I bought this place in 1980. The property values went thru the roof decades ago.
Southeast Oklahoma may not be far enough away.
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Post by cowrancher75 on Sept 26, 2019 10:41:23 GMT -6
its getting like that just about everywhere.
I like how they scream "climate change" yet.. the solution is to build houses, buildings, .. a full concrete jungle... and get rid of the animals?? huh??
That'll sure change things!!! more waste yet nothing returned except trash and pollution.
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Post by texasbred on Sept 26, 2019 16:52:42 GMT -6
Operating off borrowed money sure makes it a lot harder and finding "good" land for $3,000 an acre is almost impossible. I refuse to move to a shythole to live thinking it's going to change and property values are going to go through the roof. We can talk about it all day but it just doesn't happen very often. Guess I'm one of those naysayers.
there is lots of ground for 3k / ac that is very nice and not in a 'shithole'. I know of good ground for 2500 an acre that will run a pair to 2 acres.
Perhaps in your neighborhood. Why is it so cheap? Or perhaps simply underpriced ?? |
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Post by cowrancher75 on Sept 27, 2019 4:45:26 GMT -6
there is lots of ground for 3k / ac that is very nice and not in a 'shithole'. I know of good ground for 2500 an acre that will run a pair to 2 acres.
Perhaps in your neighborhood. Why is it so cheap? Or perhaps simply underpriced ??
This isn't "my neighborhood" there is land like that in several states.
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Post by cross on Sept 27, 2019 7:19:59 GMT -6
Carrying capacity / buy in price.
Pair to 2 acres @ 2500 an acre = 5000 buy in.
Pair per 5 acres @ 1000 an acre = 5000 buy in.
One cost a lot less but in the end they are equal.
It’s not so much cost per acre as what it can produce and what it’ll cost
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Post by texasbred on Sept 27, 2019 17:28:38 GMT -6
Perhaps in your neighborhood. Why is it so cheap? Or perhaps simply underpriced ??
This isn't "my neighborhood" there is land like that in several states.
Guess my question is "if it's so good and will handle so many cows why is it so cheap"  ? Doesn't make sense. |
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Post by cowrancher75 on Sept 28, 2019 4:38:09 GMT -6
This isn't "my neighborhood" there is land like that in several states.
Guess my question is "if it's so good and will handle so many cows why is it so cheap" ? Doesn't make sense. maybe land isn't being invaded by californians like texas is driving up land prices ? |
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Post by cowrancher75 on Sept 28, 2019 4:42:18 GMT -6
hell i just looked in some of the top producing cattle counties in texas and see land for just over 2k / acre WITH PIVOTS already on the land.
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Post by texasbred on Sept 28, 2019 18:27:23 GMT -6
hell i just looked in some of the top producing cattle c ounties in texas and see land for just over 2k / acre WITH PIVOTS already on the land. No doubt you can find it. What counties were these listings and how large were the tracts?? West Texas is covered up with pivots but without them the land is worthless. I'm just asking questions cowrancher so don't get upset. We're talking about buying a million worth of land and putting large numbers of cattle on it. Do banks still require down payments are can you borrow 100% on cattle and land? If you have to come up with a down payment; thats a large chunk of cash money you have to come up with on both land and cattle unless 100% loans are available . There will be no measurable equity in the land until you've been paying on it at least half of the term of the loan because most of the early payments goes to interest on long term loans. You mention pivots. Do you plan to graze or cut hay? You'll need both so that will affect the number of cattle you can run as well. Just questions I would have. |
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Post by texasbred on Sept 28, 2019 18:28:04 GMT -6
Guess my question is "if it's so good and will handle so many cows why is it so cheap" ? Doesn't make sense. maybe land isn't being invaded by californians like texas is driving up land prices ? Most of them are looking for a big house on a city lot. |
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? Doesn't make sense.