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Post by tcranch on Nov 2, 2019 6:49:44 GMT -6
Last year weaning was an epic nightmare. Weather turned brutal and ended up having to treat over half the calves for pneumonia. All survived and thrived (except for the steer that choked on a hedge apple). Talked with my vet about upping my vaccination protocol and discussed using a mod live for BRSV but ended up using Triangle 5 when we worked them in May. Had one of the wettest years on record with fluctuating temps all over the place this spring but only treated one calf for pneumonia. Seemed to work! Followed up with Triangle 4+PH-K at weaning with high hopes.
Perfect day for weaning (Oct 13th) and everything went according to plan. Until the next morning when I checked the cows and discovered 2 of the calves had busted out of prison, going through two sets of fence and across the road, back to mama. First time ever! Couldn't figure out where/how they got out. Later that day a neighbor called and said one of my calves was trotting down toward the entrance to the ranch. Dangit!! Picked my battles and put him back with mama. Spent quality time tightening fences, adding stays and panels as a temporary fix.
My vet ordered Aureomycin over a month ago as another preventative measure against pneumonia but it didn't come in until last week. By that time I once again had a lot of snotty noses and droopy ears. Plus, as soon as I started using the Aureomycin almost all the calves got the runs. And naturally temps have gone from 70's down to the 20's with rain, sleet, snow & 40 mph gusts. Since Tuesday I've treated 11 calves for pneumonia. Fortunately their poo seems to getting thicker and the rest of the calves look okay. Yesterday was the last day for the first Aureomycin treatment and will resume the 2nd treatment Monday (per instructions from my vet).
So back to thinking mod live for next year. Any of you use Inforce? At birth or appx 3 month? Efficacy? Other suggestions?
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Post by birddog on Nov 2, 2019 7:26:01 GMT -6
Fence line wean? At lease they are still on the property if they bust out plus less stress.
Maybe adjust your calving period to where you are weaning in September but then that will have you calving in February. This is one reason why I prefer calving in the early fall. Your odds are better for good weather, they wean off in the Spring, I can pre-condition them on good spring grass and they ship before the 100 degree weather arrives.
The bad is like this year where it was still very hot into early October. We went from wearing shorts to long underwear in two weeks. It also means you have more feed requirements through the winter. That probably is not good in your climate.
No good answer. The year needs about two more months.
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Post by angusrancher on Nov 2, 2019 7:27:14 GMT -6
Try fence line weaning with the cows and calves next to each other. We'll do over 300 at a time with sort of a half-ass fence, as far as corals go, without problems. Make sure you feed a good mineral with Rumensin in it.
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Post by tcranch on Nov 2, 2019 9:09:22 GMT -6
Don't really have the facilities to true fence line wean but they're kitty corner across the road so they can see/hear their mamas. Never had a problem with weaning. They'd bawl a couple days, one 'n done, rarely had a sick calf. Moved calving to the end of Feb because I was tired of frostbitten ears (and tails!) which subsequently moved weaning from mid/late Sept to mid Oct. So damned if I do, damned if I don't because the last 2 years I keep getting spanked by Mother Nature. Even moving calving to later in the year, we got the worst of the weather in March and lost 3 calves (one set of twins & one of them was stillborn). I culled hard to get back to spring calving only (the majority around here calve in spring) so moving to fall would be essentially starting over. Maybe have to start weaning at 5+/- months? Not my preference but neither is doctoring calves.
Calves are on Animax 6000 mineral with CTC. Still fairly decent grass, a couple bales of prairie hay, 30% protein tubs and 20% protein cubes. And I feed a little bit of cubes year 'round, primarily for the calves so they're used to them and bunk broke immediately. As soon as I'm sure the calves are doing well, I turn them out on the brome but still keep prairie bales, tubs & mineral available. I have not tried Rumensin. Do you mix it in the feed? Had one outbreak of coccidiosis in my retained heifers at the end of a 3 year drought and Corid crumbles in their feed cleared it right up.
Just checked them and there's only one looking punky this morning. I always take their temp first but fairly certain he'll be getting Resflor Gold this afternoon.
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Post by ebenezer on Nov 2, 2019 10:35:48 GMT -6
Any change in genetics to see if disease resistance might partly be an inherent issue?
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Post by birddog on Nov 2, 2019 11:51:15 GMT -6
"" they're kitty corner across the road so they can see/hear their mams""
Well there's one problem that would be easy to solve. Get the mamas further away where they can't be seen or heard or smelled. Won't help your sickness problem though. Calves usually won't bust out if they don't know where to go. Your calves being stressed and weakening their immune system may be your biggest problem with the sickness issue.
At my old ranch, to build a fence line wean area I just rolled out some old net wire across the existing barb wire fence of a small pen area. I held it off the ground about 8" to give it some more height. Rarely had a problem. I had to haul water for the calves but only for about three days. It solved a lot of my sickness issues and ended the calves beating a path along the fence.
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Post by tcranch on Nov 2, 2019 11:54:19 GMT -6
Any change in genetics to see if disease resistance might partly be an inherent issue? Interesting. And yes, to a degree. We had Dick since 2014 so presumably he wouldn't be part of the potential issue but got Johnson & Rod in 2017. Dick failed his BSE this year & Rod had a stifle injury so they're both gone (still have Johnson & bought 2 yearlings). Hmmm. We haven't bought a cow since our original 33 breds, built the herd by retaining heifers. |
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Post by tcranch on Nov 2, 2019 12:03:12 GMT -6
"" they're kitty corner across the road so they can see/hear their mams"" Well there's one problem that would be easy to solve. Get the mamas further away where they can't be seen or heard or smelled. Won't help your sickness problem though. Calves usually won't bust out if they don't know where to go. Your calves being stressed and weakening their immune system may be your biggest problem with the sickness issue. At my old ranch, to build a fence line wean area I just rolled out some old net wire across the existing barb wire fence of a small pen area. I held it off the ground about 8" to give it some more height. Rarely had a problem. I had to haul water for the calves but only for about three days. It solved a lot of my sickness issues and ended the calves beating a path along the fence. You got me thinking and there are other areas we could wean, one of which we would have to haul water. My main concern with that south pasture is the distance and the adjoining neighbors fence is pretty bad. We could just wean them in the barnyard even though it's only an acre & would be pretty crowded, nothing much to graze. But definitely something to consider, thanks. |
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Post by birddog on Nov 2, 2019 12:48:45 GMT -6
Actually the smaller the pen the better IMO up to a point. Less fence to walk. I wean about 20 to 25 at a time in a pen with no grass that is about 100' x 100'. They have access to the barn if they want shade or need to get out of the weather.
I put a round bale of my best hay in the middle, a water trough and a feed trough along the fence. I keep some creep in the trough and once one starts eating, the rest will come see what it is. Keep them fed and they won't bawl as much. Most of the time they just sit by the fence across from their mom.
After two days I open up some more area that has grass but the hay is usually what they want.
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Post by tcranch on Nov 2, 2019 16:09:41 GMT -6
Yup, punky calf from this morning had a 103.6 temp. That said, my neighbor texted me and he's treated 7 out of 15 so I guess I'm ahead on average.
I have previously weaned the late calves in the barn but no more than 7. Plus it was December so I wanted them to have the shelter.
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Post by sleepy on Nov 2, 2019 23:20:43 GMT -6
I use Inforce at birth, Bovishield Gold One Shot when they are worked around 3 months, followed up with a cheaper Bovishield product at weaning. My calves are weaned in a lot with salebarn cattle as neighbors on both sides. After a few weeks when I think they are very well started, they get sorted and comingled with the bought calves. I don't have health problems out of my home raised calves using that protocol, and I really test they're immunity with the salebarn cattle who are constantly reminding me of what a depressing job doctoring sicks can be. I don't trust killed products, when shuffled around I've seen people's calf crops break sick as if they were never vaccinated once they left home. I can't risk that. I don't know if the Inforce is overkill or not, but it gives me some peace of mind and doesn't cost much. Hope your weather and your calves get better. I'm hoping you hit them with a couple of MLV's next year and maybe use that Resflor money for something else.
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Post by tcranch on Nov 3, 2019 6:58:21 GMT -6
I use Inforce at birth, Bovishield Gold One Shot when they are worked around 3 months, followed up with a cheaper Bovishield product at weaning. My calves are weaned in a lot with salebarn cattle as neighbors on both sides. After a few weeks when I think they are very well started, they get sorted and comingled with the bought calves. I don't have health problems out of my home raised calves using that protocol, and I really test they're immunity with the salebarn cattle who are constantly reminding me of what a depressing job doctoring sicks can be. I don't trust killed products, when shuffled around I've seen people's calf crops break sick as if they were never vaccinated once they left home. I can't risk that. I don't know if the Inforce is overkill or not, but it gives me some peace of mind and doesn't cost much. Hope your weather and your calves get better. I'm hoping you hit them with a couple of MLV's next year and maybe use that Resflor money for something else. Thanks for the info. I tag & give a First Defense bolus at birth so adding Inforce should be doable - most of the time. I only calve out the heifers in the barn but the others are in the pasture and there's always a few calves that don't get worked; either they're too fast, mama's a little too testy or the calves are stronger than me  |
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Post by tillhill on Nov 3, 2019 10:42:48 GMT -6
I used to have bunch of issues. At birth calves get First Defense, once they get kicked out of yard they get Inforce and 7 way blackleg + Pinkeye shot, then cut calves when I was breeding then we weaned and vaccinated same day. Same day is what was causing my problems more than anything.
Have now switched to weaning shots tocalves at least 3 weeks prior to weaning/selling and they get Inforce at that time. Then at weaning or prefer 2 weeks later another round of shots. Usually don't get another Inforce but some years we have.
Since running that program and even mixing different pastures at weaning we have treated less than 1% of calves. Takes time to sort and work them but has been well spent for us!
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Post by okie on Nov 3, 2019 15:39:17 GMT -6
I second the bovishield gold. I have never had a problem with anything that had it. I've seen some calves that were sick that I'm told had the enforce but I don't know for sure that they had it. I DO know that the bovishield works.
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Post by tcranch on Nov 3, 2019 17:25:55 GMT -6
I used to have bunch of issues. At birth calves get First Defense, once they get kicked out of yard they get Inforce and 7 way blackleg + Pinkeye shot, then cut calves when I was breeding then we weaned and vaccinated same day. Same day is what was causing my problems more than anything. Have now switched to weaning shots tocalves at least 3 weeks prior to weaning/selling and they get Inforce at that time. Then at weaning or prefer 2 weeks later another round of shots. Usually don't get another Inforce but some years we have. Since running that program and even mixing different pastures at weaning we have treated less than 1% of calves. Takes time to sort and work them but has been well spent for us! We originally worked the calves a few weeks prior to weaning but it became complicated to get my crew's schedules in sync to round 'em up again a couple weeks later - everybody's busy with their own cattle. Plus I pay them well & it gets expensive. Those are excuses. In reality, all the cattle could be worked, calves turned back out with their mamas and I could catch/wean a few calves at a time by myself. Keep them at the barn a couple days then trailer them to the west 80. But working/weaning at the same time has worked well for the past 7 years with only a few calves getting sick - total, not each year. Well, until last year. My vet said more people lost calves than he can ever remember so it really was primarily an epic weather disaster. So clearly there are some things I can do differently in my management and vaccinations and a mod live seems the way to go. BTW I can't remember the last time I had to treat a calf for scours with First Defense. Love it! |
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