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Post by cowrancher75 on Jan 12, 2020 6:48:51 GMT -6
anyone have any experience with these? are they really that small? big discounts at the yard?
i read one article and these guys bought a bunch and retained ownership through finishing.. said they graded pretty well... almost all choice and some prime.. I think 2% select.
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Post by randy on Jan 12, 2020 6:52:45 GMT -6
How was the yield grade? Don't seem like they would fit the box beef demand of today.
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Post by okie on Jan 12, 2020 11:14:15 GMT -6
They're not as small as you'd think. Most people wouldn't really think to much about it unless they saw the frame score on paper. There were lots of frame two and three cows running around in California and they did a good job of getting up and down the mountain and bringing in a calf every year. The key is to have enough of them to put together a load. As Randy alluded to, if you stick that calf in with a load of frame five and sixes it will be a yield grade four or five by the time the rest of them get to kill size. You have to finish them a little different. The way to do it is to use terminal sires to size the calf up but then you get quite a bit of variation. Frame four is a little more mainstream and a good balance if you're wanting to downsize and still make beef that fits in the box. I used a bunch of Beckton Nebula and Back to Basics type bulls and loved the daughters and never had a problem selling the steers.
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Post by birddog on Jan 12, 2020 15:51:21 GMT -6
Some of the big grow yards are shying away from the x-large frame animals for the reason that Randy mentioned. They won't fit the package size they want. Think of it from the restaurant view. They have on their menu a 12 oz ribeye. They are only going to buy boxes of steaks that are very close to that size so the processor has to cut down the larger steaks to make this order. All those expensive trimmings go to a not so expensive product.
The industry sells a lot more modest size steaks so the industry is wanting more modest size steers. Just look at the size of the steaks at your local supermarket. Of course modest size is different to different folks and has lots to do with your location. Modest size to me for my commercial herd is 1100 to 1200 lbs but I will admit my herd is mostly larger than that. I will also admit that my most efficient cows are a couple of red mots that weigh 970 and 1050. They constantly wean off calves that are 55 to 60% of their live weight @ 7 months. Their calves sell in the same group as the calves off the 1500 lb cows.
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Post by farmerjan on Jan 12, 2020 17:58:07 GMT -6
Most of our cows weigh in the 1100 lb range. Just sold 3 that were 1150, 1105 and 1105. Shipped a smaller "smokey cow" that) was born to a 18 month heifer (OOOPPS calf) out of one of my favorite cow families. She was getting some age, (13 I think) came up open, in good flesh, weaned off a heifer... time to go. Weighed 965 and the calf was nearly as tall as her. Have sold several 10-1050 lb cull cows over the years, that have weaned off calves at 450-550 at 6-7 months. I can't say how the calves finish out because we never have enough to be able to follow through. Any beef that we have raised is in the 1000 to 1200 size when sent to the butcher. Anything much bigger, we would have trouble working them through the chutes. These cattle seldom get feet problems or lameness of any kind. They work for us. The black steer calves sell right along with anything at the yard. I have had a couple of what I called lowlines, and bred to our "regular" angus bulls. Calves have been as big or bigger than the dams at weaning. Sold right along with the rest.
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Post by cowrancher75 on Jan 13, 2020 6:05:27 GMT -6
thanks for the replies.. i'm still trying to find that article that talks about the yield grades and all information.
i think i'll take a trip and visit Mr. Coffett and check out his cattle.
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Post by randy on Jan 13, 2020 6:19:58 GMT -6
If a steer calf finishes at the dam mature weight a thousand lb cow will produce a steer calf that finishes at 1000 lb. Add a Limousin Charolais or Simi bull and you can drag the frame and finish weight up a couple of hundred lbs. Other wise to keep the 1000 steer from finishing to early and light feeders will have to implant the hell out of them.
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Post by ebenezer on Jan 13, 2020 11:38:18 GMT -6
If a steer calf finishes at the dam mature weight a thousand lb cow will produce a steer calf that finishes at 1000 lb. Add a Limousin Charolais or Simi bull and you can drag the frame and finish weight up a couple of hundred lbs. Other wise to keep the 1000 steer from finishing to early and light feeders will have to implant the hell out of them. Not always. The small stuff is prepotent. And not just OCC. It can run many generations: 3+ from experience and not let up. OCC is small frame, in general, but not in specific. Extra weight is fat, in general, but not specific. Cows, in general, play out early as increasing amounts of fat each year overwhelms the endocrine system. Back to Bonsma, again. Only use cattle that are what you want in type and size unless you have secret knowledge of the breeding and what to expect beyond the norm. Experience is a valuable teacher with $250 discounts per calf on FS and weight and the genetics will refuse to allow the height. Try it and with a purchase price and $250/calf you can be an experienced student, too. Just do the math. |
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Post by randy on Jan 13, 2020 17:48:55 GMT -6
If a steer calf finishes at the dam mature weight a thousand lb cow will produce a steer calf that finishes at 1000 lb. Add a Limousin Charolais or Simi bull and you can drag the frame and finish weight up a couple of hundred lbs. Other wise to keep the 1000 steer from finishing to early and light feeders will have to implant the hell out of them. Not always. The small stuff is prepotent. And not just OCC. It can run many generations: 3+ from experience and not let up. OCC is small frame, in general, but not in specific. Extra weight is fat, in general, but not specific. Cows, in general, play out early as increasing amounts of fat each year overwhelms the endocrine system. Back to Bonsma, again. Only use cattle that are what you want in type and size unless you have secret knowledge of the breeding and what to expect beyond the norm. Experience is a valuable teacher with $250 discounts per calf on FS and weight and the genetics will refuse to allow the height. Try it and with a purchase price and $250/calf you can be an experienced student, too. Just do the math. I pretty much agree with you Ebenezer. But enough implants will keep the calves leaner longer so they can be took to a heavier weight. I don't need to small framed cows just don't work to good for me. Some places if can see them working but not here. |
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Post by cowrancher75 on Jan 15, 2020 6:40:52 GMT -6
Not always. The small stuff is prepotent. And not just OCC. It can run many generations: 3+ from experience and not let up. OCC is small frame, in general, but not in specific. Extra weight is fat, in general, but not specific. Cows, in general, play out early as increasing amounts of fat each year overwhelms the endocrine system. Back to Bonsma, again. Only use cattle that are what you want in type and size unless you have secret knowledge of the breeding and what to expect beyond the norm. Experience is a valuable teacher with $250 discounts per calf on FS and weight and the genetics will refuse to allow the height. Try it and with a purchase price and $250/calf you can be an experienced student, too. Just do the math. I don't need anymore lessons with my dollars.... they've gave me a really..really.. good education already..  |
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Post by ebenezer on Jan 15, 2020 7:25:19 GMT -6
I don't need anymore lessons with my dollars.... they've gave me a really..really.. good education already.. Size matters. |
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Post by Allenw on Jan 15, 2020 13:25:32 GMT -6
A few pcc bulls around here, I think he's went a bit too far as far as frame size. I kept a heifer that I'm about positive is out of the neighbors pcc bull. She's small but raised a good calf.
If I was wanting a smaller framed animal I would not go that far in one step. Ease down some and see what you think before going as far as pcc has.
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