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Post by highgrit on Feb 4, 2020 15:20:32 GMT -6
Do you weigh your calves? I did this year out of sheer curiosity. The only times I ever weighed one born on the farm in the past was when I had a really small one or a really big one. I just went 5 years buying orphans that came with a weight stamped on their tag. My biggest calves from those purchased newborns are not my biggest cows. My biggest cow was 70lbs at birth. I have one that came marked with 110lbs on her tag. She's not my biggest cow but now my second biggest. I fed them all exactly the same.
The calf that I got out of that 110lbs calf now gave me an 85lb calf. I feel like all my calves are pretty large from these girls I have now.
The cow has more to do with the BW of the calf than the bull. Our same cows have the largest calves every year no matter what make or model bull their bred to. And if that holds true in other herds which I believe it does on an average, using a cow from a high BW bull is going to yield larger than average calves. Most of us are trying to produce a moderate " average " animal not the biggest. |
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Post by tcranch on Feb 5, 2020 7:29:27 GMT -6
I did this year out of sheer curiosity. The only times I ever weighed one born on the farm in the past was when I had a really small one or a really big one. I just went 5 years buying orphans that came with a weight stamped on their tag. My biggest calves from those purchased newborns are not my biggest cows. My biggest cow was 70lbs at birth. I have one that came marked with 110lbs on her tag. She's not my biggest cow but now my second biggest. I fed them all exactly the same.
The calf that I got out of that 110lbs calf now gave me an 85lb calf. I feel like all my calves are pretty large from these girls I have now.
. And if that holds true in other herds which I believe it does on an average, using a cow from a high BW bull is going to yield larger than average calves. Most of us are trying to produce a moderate " average " animal not the biggest. Yes! And it appears to me that trait carries on in lineage, even with first calf heifers. |
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Post by franklinridgefarms on Feb 5, 2020 8:42:53 GMT -6
The cow has more to do with the BW of the calf than the bull. Our same cows have the largest calves every year no matter what make or model bull their bred to. And if that holds true in other herds which I believe it does on an average, using a cow from a high BW bull is going to yield larger than average calves. Most of us are trying to produce a moderate " average " animal not the biggest. Yes! And it appears to me that trait carries on in lineage, even with first calf heifers. We don’t get birth weights anymore since gone commercial, just use visual appraisal of n terms of small or large. When I had registered cattle we weighed all of the calves at birth. We had one particular cow that was one the largest at around 1550 that alway had the smallest calf even smaller than most heifers calves. We typically had high birth weights from those Charolais it was very common for 100-120# and a couple 135#. The aforementioned cow never had a calf over 88# and her lady calf at 12 years old was 60# out of a consistently high BW bull. |
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Post by nedjr on Feb 5, 2020 9:09:48 GMT -6
The last thing I want is to sell someone a bull that causes them a lot of problems. I’ve watched calving ease and birthweight closely and it’s been years since we’ve had a calf over 100 lbs. Its hard for us to sell a bull with a BW in the 90’s and almost impossible to sell one over 100 lbs.. We haven’t used many bulls that were much over breed average on BW until last year I bought a powerful bull with a 4.7 BW EPD, Hereford. I selected cows for him I think I’ll be fine with but my concern is if his daughters will be the type of cows that have big calves no matter who I breed them too. Time will tell.
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Post by brightraven on Feb 5, 2020 9:16:52 GMT -6
I think the influence a bull or cow has on birthweight varies over a wide range. I have cows that regardless of the bull you breed them to, they have heavy calves. One that comes to mind is Price. I might dig out her numbers and post them but her calves probably average 100 pounds. These are Simmental.
I have another cow that regardless of the bull, she has small calves. She is a Simangus.
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Post by brightraven on Feb 5, 2020 9:25:40 GMT -6
Price
10/23/13. 98 lbs.
12/3/14. 100 lbs
11/4/15. 96 lbs
10/3/16. 87 lbs
9/16/17. 93 lbs
9/5/18. 112 lbs. (Broadway)
9/6/19. 108 lbs.
Average. 99.1
I have never touched her calf during partum. She spits them out like watermelon seeds.
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Post by fence on Feb 5, 2020 10:54:30 GMT -6
To me losing a few is cheaper than babysitting them while they calves
A cows job is to birth, raise and wean off a good calf. And get knocked up along the way. A good cow can handle a big calf on a good presentation. Or a modest sized calf on most any position. Those that can't get culled, by me or by nature.
I don't want 50 pounders, but I damn sure don't want 90 pounders.
Big calves being more thrifty is a joke. Big calves are typically awkward, and slow to start. Like anything stay inside of the extremes and you will be better off.
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Post by brightraven on Feb 5, 2020 11:10:05 GMT -6
To me losing a few is cheaper than babysitting them while they calves A cows job is to birth, raise and wean off a good calf. And get knocked up along the way. A good cow can handle a big calf on a good presentation. Or a modest sized calf on most any position. Those that can't get culled, by me or by nature. I don't want 50 pounders, but I damn sure don't want 90 pounders. Big calves being more thrifty is a joke. Big calves are typically awkward, and slow to start. Like anything stay inside of the extremes and you will be better off. My average calf is 87 pounds. I prefer not to go under 80. I like where I am on birthweights. My calves tend to be thrifty. I should be clear, that is more a function of nutrition than actual birthweight. I agree even the 75 pound calves here are thrifty. I just don't like those thin calves that don't have the mass to get off to a good start. Having said that, my 100 plus calves have hit the ground, got up and nursed and in 8 hours are running in circles. I have not experienced any problem with big calves being awkward. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 11:18:08 GMT -6
I used the same bull with all my cows this year. My mini cow gave me a 50lbs heifer calf. My Holstein X Angus's all gave me over 80lbs. The dam had to have something to do with it. Obviously my mini still spits out minis regardless of who I breed her too. I have bred her to a shorthorn, black angus and red angus bull. She gives me a 45-50lbs each time that looks IDENTICAL to her.
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Post by brightraven on Feb 5, 2020 11:26:12 GMT -6
Generally, the cows seem to have the greatest influence on predicting birthweight. However,there are some bulls that have the genetic disposition to influence birthweight. One is Hook's Broadway. Every cow I have used him on, has a calf way above her average birthweights.
A good example, I have a cow that has averaged about 85 pound calves. Fall of 2017, I bred her to Hook's Broadway. Her calf was110 pounds.
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Post by franklinridgefarms on Feb 5, 2020 12:08:26 GMT -6
To me losing a few is cheaper than babysitting them while they calves A cows job is to birth, raise and wean off a good calf. And get knocked up along the way. A good cow can handle a big calf on a good presentation. Or a modest sized calf on most any position. Those that can't get culled, by me or by nature. I don't want 50 pounders, but I damn sure don't want 90 pounders. Big calves being more thrifty is a joke. Big calves are typically awkward, and slow to start. Like anything stay inside of the extremes and you will be better off. My average calf is 87 pounds. I prefer not to go under 80. I like where I am on birthweights. My calves tend to be thrifty. I should be clear, that is more a function of nutrition than actual birthweight. I agree even the 75 pound calves here are thrifty. I just don't like those thin calves that don't have the mass to get off to a good start. Having said that, my 100 plus calves have hit the ground, got up and nursed and in 8 hours are running in circles. I have not experienced any problem with big calves being awkward. I have Fence’s idea on calf size as well, though an 87 # calf wouldn’t worry me for cows but much over that consistently and it could be problematic at some point. I don’t want real little calves nor do I want real big calves. Both extremes have resulted in weaker/slower calves at a higher rate than calves somewhere in the middle. When we had Charolais cattle in the 80’s and early 90’s, we did have issues with some big slow calves. Sometimes the bigger calves would be as thrifty as any, but a significant number were definitely slow to getup and go on their own. On the other side we have had a few real small Angus calves that didn’t turn out well whereas I think a little larger calf would have been ok. We use CE bulls but not extreme, the BW #’s are positive on our bulls. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 12:12:00 GMT -6
To me losing a few is cheaper than babysitting them while they calves A cows job is to birth, raise and wean off a good calf. And get knocked up along the way. A good cow can handle a big calf on a good presentation. Or a modest sized calf on most any position. Those that can't get culled, by me or by nature. I don't want 50 pounders, but I damn sure don't want 90 pounders. Big calves being more thrifty is a joke. Big calves are typically awkward, and slow to start. Like anything stay inside of the extremes and you will be better off. I think a determining factor in your babysitting statement is whether or not you make your sole income from your cattle or not. If you are deriving your entire income from your cattle I feel you should be "babysitting" every step of the way through calving season. Shyte happens, and if you are Johnny on the spot and successfully deal with it it's more dollars in your jeans at the end of the year. |
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Post by Nesikep on Feb 5, 2020 12:18:32 GMT -6
To me losing a few is cheaper than babysitting them while they calves A cows job is to birth, raise and wean off a good calf. And get knocked up along the way. A good cow can handle a big calf on a good presentation. Or a modest sized calf on most any position. Those that can't get culled, by me or by nature. I don't want 50 pounders, but I damn sure don't want 90 pounders. Big calves being more thrifty is a joke. Big calves are typically awkward, and slow to start. Like anything stay inside of the extremes and you will be better off. Big calves need to have cows with milk, Cows with milk need calves with big appetites. I don't want any cows that have trouble with a 90 lb calf, most of my heifers will have 90 lb'ers and once in a while they'll need a bit of a hand... mature cows never need help unless there's a bad presentation Here's a 140 lb'er, he was about 50 lbs heavier than any other calf at weaning I typically concentrate on CE and CEM |
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Post by fence on Feb 5, 2020 12:35:32 GMT -6
To me losing a few is cheaper than babysitting them while they calves A cows job is to birth, raise and wean off a good calf. And get knocked up along the way. A good cow can handle a big calf on a good presentation. Or a modest sized calf on most any position. Those that can't get culled, by me or by nature. I don't want 50 pounders, but I damn sure don't want 90 pounders. Big calves being more thrifty is a joke. Big calves are typically awkward, and slow to start. Like anything stay inside of the extremes and you will be better off. I think a determining factor in your babysitting statement is whether or not you make your sole income from your cattle or not. If you are deriving your entire income from your cattle I feel you should be "babysitting" every step of the way through calving season. Shyte happens, and if you are Johnny on the spot and successfully deal with it it's more dollars in your jeans at the end of the year. I don't care for employees that require babysitting either. Very few make their sole income from cattle. Most sell hay ,clear land, do construction etc. And a large number calve year round. I pay my cows just like I pay my men. But I expect them to do what they get paid for. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 12:49:06 GMT -6
I think a determining factor in your babysitting statement is whether or not you make your sole income from your cattle or not. If you are deriving your entire income from your cattle I feel you should be "babysitting" every step of the way through calving season. Shyte happens, and if you are Johnny on the spot and successfully deal with it it's more dollars in your jeans at the end of the year. I don't care for employees that require babysitting either. Very few make their sole income from cattle. Most sell hay ,clear land, do construction etc. And a large number calve year round. I pay my cows just like I pay my men. But I expect them to do what they get paid for. I also expect my cows to do what they are paid to do, but they are my livestock and therefore their welfare is my responsibility. If they become problematic they are culled out of the herd and they move on. They will not suffer if I can do anything to prevent it. That is our job as livestock owners. To do otherwise is unethical. |
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