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Post by cowrancher75 on Oct 18, 2019 4:52:57 GMT -6
all these fancy cows / bulls look good...
but will they fall apart throwing them out on range?
lots of SAV FINAL ANSWER in a lot of sale catalogs..
I bought 3 registered angus 3 years ago and 2 of them have fallen apart.. don't raise that good of calves, and are the poorest lookin ones out there. They are only arond 5-6 yrs old.. should be in prime.
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Post by bulltrader on Oct 18, 2019 5:15:12 GMT -6
For several years I bought at the sales knowing I didn't like them bring over conditioned. Never had one last past 4 years old. Started raising my own and am much happier
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Post by Allenw on Oct 18, 2019 5:58:56 GMT -6
Feedlot cattle, they've had a crap load of feed poured to them to make the great EPDs they have. The extra feed works against selecting animals that fit the actual conditions they are raised in.
I have a cow, the last of three heifers I kept out of a borrowed bull, that is destined to town. I'll have to fatten the skinny thing first. she doesn't raise a good calf, calved late this time, and can't stay in condition on the same amount of feed the others do. She was four years old this spring.
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Post by bulltrader on Oct 18, 2019 7:51:49 GMT -6
For several years I bought at the sales knowing I didn't like them being over conditioned. Never had one last past 4 years old. Started raising my own and am much happier |
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Post by ebenezer on Oct 18, 2019 17:17:16 GMT -6
You should see a lot of Final Answer as he has 35,000+ calves showing on BW and WW. What I do not understand is that his HP is not so attractive with a lot of proof. You would think that with that much use his daughter would be pretty useful. But then in 2nd and 3rd generation from him the HP hops up to near the top for current cattle. I am not hung up on HP but have been trying to figure it out. I still believe that some of the current bulls with breed leading HP EPDs but also with high MM EPDs will get daughters bred one time and then show up open after the first calf. Milk is always a "feed need" and on normal pasture/range condition the extra milk is the end of some some young cows that would otherwise be useful.
Any animal developed in a similar condition as the adult environment will have the best chance. So many bull test bulls have melted over the years. When will they ever learn?
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Post by 76bar on Oct 18, 2019 18:27:59 GMT -6
Ahem...buy from those who raise & manage their cattle similarly or tougher than you do.
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Post by greybeard on Oct 18, 2019 23:16:28 GMT -6
If they can't make it on forage and maybe a little supplement in winter, then they aren't top of the line no matter what their paperwork says..and they never were..
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Post by cowrancher75 on Oct 19, 2019 4:57:22 GMT -6
If they can't make it on forage and maybe a little supplement in winter, then they aren't top of the line no matter what their paperwork says..and they never were.. i agree.
I'm buying a new place.. need to buy a lot of cattle.. I've been saving all my heifers for the last 3 years.. They fit the bill.. do not require anything but grass, hay and mineral. but i don't have near as many as I need.
I'd hate to spend a bunch of $$$ and they fall apart or need extra feed.
one thought --- thinking i might just buy heifers at the yard and breed them.
Also.. I like OHIO LAND AND CATTLE the way they raise them... but i'm concerned about the size. I think he wants something like 16 or 1800 / each cow..
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Post by cowrancher75 on Oct 19, 2019 5:00:23 GMT -6
heifers @ the yard .. culling may be high.. and might take a while to weed through them. plus.. lots of farms commingling..
Ohio land :: one place.. proven grass gainers.. proven mothers.. size.. ?
you guys see CICRLE A's new "wangus" bulls.. they talk them up pretty good.. and say they are making an extra 300 / hd by getting a 80% prime grade.
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Post by cowrancher75 on Oct 19, 2019 5:03:33 GMT -6
You should see a lot of Final Answer as he has 35,000+ calves showing on BW and WW. What I do not understand is that his HP is not so attractive with a lot of proof. You would think that with that much use his daughter would be pretty useful. But then in 2nd and 3rd generation from him the HP hops up to near the top for current cattle. I am not hung up on HP but have been trying to figure it out. I still believe that some of the current bulls with breed leading HP EPDs but also with high MM EPDs will get daughters bred one time and then show up open after the first calf. Milk is always a "feed need" and on normal pasture/range condition the extra milk is the end of some some young cows that would otherwise be useful. Any animal developed in a similar condition as the adult environment will have the best chance. So many bull test bulls have melted over the years. When will they ever learn?
are they still doing a forage bull test ? I remember one from about 10 yrs ago but haven't seen one for a while.
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Post by talltimber on Oct 19, 2019 5:08:43 GMT -6
I saw them in their sale catalog they sent recently. They looked better than I had figured they would. I am not finishing my own yet, so not ready to really go in that direction yet. If I was, I would look at them a little harder, especially if I was trying to direct sell.
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Post by Allenw on Oct 19, 2019 5:19:43 GMT -6
For several years I bought at the sales knowing I didn't like them bring over conditioned. Never had one last past 4 years old. Started raising my own and am much happier Four years is about as long as an animal last in today's turn and burn breeding plan. |
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Post by highgrit on Oct 19, 2019 6:11:43 GMT -6
There will be 40 good commercial bred heifers available after the first of the year in Tennessee from a member on here. He's claiming that he'll start posting more now that he has time.
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Post by ebenezer on Oct 19, 2019 13:42:43 GMT -6
You should see a lot of Final Answer as he has 35,000+ calves showing on BW and WW. What I do not understand is that his HP is not so attractive with a lot of proof. You would think that with that much use his daughter would be pretty useful. But then in 2nd and 3rd generation from him the HP hops up to near the top for current cattle. I am not hung up on HP but have been trying to figure it out. I still believe that some of the current bulls with breed leading HP EPDs but also with high MM EPDs will get daughters bred one time and then show up open after the first calf. Milk is always a "feed need" and on normal pasture/range condition the extra milk is the end of some some young cows that would otherwise be useful. Any animal developed in a similar condition as the adult environment will have the best chance. So many bull test bulls have melted over the years. When will they ever learn?
are they still doing a forage bull test ? I remember one from about 10 yrs ago but haven't seen one for a while.
The do at Blackville. That is not fescue so it would be a gamble for this area. But what is interesting is the YH, FS, REA/CWT and such on many of the sons of high bred bulls. That data will not be used in sale publications and semen catalogs. It does not flatter breeding that is feedlot based. |
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Post by okie on Oct 19, 2019 15:41:06 GMT -6
heifers @ the yard .. culling may be high.. and might take a while to weed through them. plus.. lots of farms commingling.. Ohio land :: one place.. proven grass gainers.. proven mothers.. size.. ? you guys see CICRLE A's new "wangus" bulls.. they talk them up pretty good.. and say they are making an extra 300 / hd by getting a 80% prime grade. They'll go prime alright but the discount for yield grade 4 and over will destroy that prime premium on most grids. |
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