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Post by brightraven on Jan 8, 2020 18:49:11 GMT -6
I have 2 fall 2019 calves out of this bull. Built like tanks.  |
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Post by tillhill on Jan 9, 2020 10:44:35 GMT -6
Only thing that I don't like is his 4.7 frame score. My Simmentals are getting smaller and my Angus are getting bigger.
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Post by 76bar on Jan 9, 2020 11:32:37 GMT -6
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Post by brightraven on Jan 9, 2020 11:39:17 GMT -6
Only thing that I don't like is his 4.7 frame score. My Simmentals are getting smaller and my Angus are getting bigger. Right on. My concern also. One of these calves has a very small frame. I will say, they are tanks. |
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Post by 76bar on Jan 9, 2020 11:49:03 GMT -6
Can't get the hang of posting let alone with a link.
Frame score is the least of the problem. Weak top line ski sloped hips confirmed by the yearling video would be a no go for me regardless of the hype. Will be interesting how many of his progeny remain productive till a ripe old age.
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Post by flyingl on Jan 14, 2020 8:41:15 GMT -6
Ron is White Eagle the one with the very small frame?
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Post by brightraven on Jan 14, 2020 8:49:24 GMT -6
Ron is White Eagle the one with the very small frame? No. That is Star's calf, a bull. Star was my first retained heifer. I bought a beautiful heifer from Rocking P. She had Star about the first of the year. We had a lush spring and I had just renovated my pastures. Star's Dam bloated. Star was 4 months old. She was always small. I took her under my wing. She has always been a pet. I bred her last fall to Eagle. This is her best calf (she has had about 8 calves). Built like a tank but he is going to be small framed. The Eagle out of Tatum has a very nice size frame. |
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Post by brightraven on Jan 25, 2020 6:26:13 GMT -6
Genex came out with their 2020 Catalog and ASA has more numbers on Hook's Eagle. I have some friends with Genex who say his calves are looking great. They add a lot growth, performance and muscle without increasing frame. That is a hard formula to match. You can add WW and YW with a bull like Hook's Broadway but you are going to add frame. Here is a recent picture: 
His numbers are holding up. I personally have never seen a Simmental Bull that is Number 1, 2 and 3 in so many categories.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 8:05:22 GMT -6
So this is a crossbred bull, and mated to a PB 7/8 female would not give you a purebred bull or heifer. You could never get a PB bull calf from this bull, and would have to breed him to a 15/16 cow to get a PB heifer.
Turns out this herd of mine I've been calling mongrels all this time is getting to be largely unregistered but technically purebred. Who knew lol
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Post by brightraven on Jan 25, 2020 8:24:30 GMT -6
So this is a crossbred bull, and mated to a PB 7/8 female would not give you a purebred bull or heifer. You could never get a PB bull calf from this bull, and would have to breed him to a 15/16 cow to get a PB heifer. Turns out this herd of mine I've been calling mongrels all this time is getting to be largely unregistered but technically purebred. Who knew lol Your herd is hardly mongrels. The ASA herd book is open. You can register an Angus cow with only 1/8 Simmental in her pedigree. Simangus cattle occupy a considerable part of the registry in the herd book as well as Simbrah. If you ponder it, the primary function of a Breed Association is to maintain a Herd Book (Keeper of Record) so a buyer of registered stock can view the pedigree. The ASA was formed with a goal of providing ultimate flexibility. If you want Puebreds or Fullbroods, the crosses like Simangus and Simbrah doesn't hamper that. But it does add a place to record pedigrees for popular crosses. I don't think that is bad. My bulls are mostly PB and most go to producers who put them on Angus cows. Kentucky is predominantly an Angus region. Thus, to get heterosis, most of my buyers want a Purebred. But there is also a strong secondary market for Simangus bulls. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 8:57:33 GMT -6
So this is a crossbred bull, and mated to a PB 7/8 female would not give you a purebred bull or heifer. You could never get a PB bull calf from this bull, and would have to breed him to a 15/16 cow to get a PB heifer. Turns out this herd of mine I've been calling mongrels all this time is getting to be largely unregistered but technically purebred. Who knew lol Your herd is hardly mongrels. The ASA herd book is open. You can register an Angus cow with only 1/8 Simmental in her pedigree. Simangus cattle occupy a considerable part of the registry in the herd book as well as Simbrah. If you ponder it, the primary function of a Breed Association is to maintain a Herd Book (Keeper of Record) so a buyer of registered stock can view the pedigree. The ASA was formed with a goal of providing ultimate flexibility. If you want Puebreds or Fullbroods, the crosses like Simangus and Simbrah doesn't hamper that. But it does add a place to record pedigrees for popular crosses. I don't think that is bad. My bulls are mostly PB and most go to producers who put them on Angus cows. Kentucky is predominantly an Angus region. Thus, to get heterosis, most of my buyers want a Purebred. But there is also a strong secondary market for Simangus bulls. I think I still have an evolving opinion on this. I always thought a breed association was there to preserve the purity of the breed so hacks like myself could go to the cupboard and get pure or almost pure ingredients to mix up as we see fit to make the best beef animals. So it seems counter-intuitive that the breed associations appear to be mixing the ingredients up before we can get our hands on it. I've always stated that I am a fan of the cross bred beef animal, but I would prefer to use pure ingredients of my choosing. I do realize that the registry still allows us to find those pure or full blood animals but the ASA appears to still be the wild west. I wonder if there isn't a danger to the breed to try to be too flexible trying to be all things to all producers. Maybe the Association would be better served to raise it's requirements for Purebred registration now that they should have enough outside influence within the registry to have a broad enough appeal to the cattle producing masses. I don't know. Maybe I'm just too old fashioned for this modern breeding philosophy. I'm sure my opinions on the matter will continue to change, it's just how it appears to me at this point in time. |
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Post by brightraven on Jan 25, 2020 9:15:45 GMT -6
Your herd is hardly mongrels. The ASA herd book is open. You can register an Angus cow with only 1/8 Simmental in her pedigree. Simangus cattle occupy a considerable part of the registry in the herd book as well as Simbrah. If you ponder it, the primary function of a Breed Association is to maintain a Herd Book (Keeper of Record) so a buyer of registered stock can view the pedigree. The ASA was formed with a goal of providing ultimate flexibility. If you want Puebreds or Fullbroods, the crosses like Simangus and Simbrah doesn't hamper that. But it does add a place to record pedigrees for popular crosses. I don't think that is bad. My bulls are mostly PB and most go to producers who put them on Angus cows. Kentucky is predominantly an Angus region. Thus, to get heterosis, most of my buyers want a Purebred. But there is also a strong secondary market for Simangus bulls. I think I still have an evolving opinion on this. I always thought a breed association was there to preserve the purity of the breed so hacks like myself could go to the cupboard and get pure or almost pure ingredients to mix up as we see fit to make the best beef animals. So it seems counter-intuitive that the breed associations appear to be mixing the ingredients up before we can get our hands on it. I've always stated that I am a fan of the cross bred beef animal, but I would prefer to use pure ingredients of my choosing. I do realize that the registry still allows us to find those pure or full blood animals but the ASA appears to still be the wild west. I wonder if there isn't a danger to the breed to try to be too flexible trying to be all things to all producers. Maybe the Association would be better served to raise it's requirements for Purebred registration now that they should have enough outside influence within the registry to have a broad enough appeal to the cattle producing masses. I don't know. Maybe I'm just too old fashioned for this modern breeding philosophy. I'm sure my opinions on the matter will continue to change, it's just how it appears to me at this point in time. The ASA has an interesting history. Because I am a member I have read their bylaws, objectives and mission statements. The Modern American Simmental is not intended to retain the traits of its European progenitors. On the contrary, they sought to mitigate what were viewed by the industry as undesirable traits, such as large frame, too much milk, poor CE, etc. Yet, retain qualities such as depth, muscling, carcass quality, etc. To do that they introduced traits from other breeds. As long as the buyer can look through the pedigree, there will always be the capability to buy purity. The Association provides the record but the buyer has to do their part. Btw. I am older than you so don't make that excuse. The Association should not be the basis of anyone's breeding practices. The Association is only the keeper of record - pedigree, performance data, progeny records, EPDs, etc. It also promotes the breed (no one does that better than Angus). |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 9:23:41 GMT -6
The ASA has an interesting history. Because I am a member I have read their bylaws, objectives and mission statements. The Modern American Simmental is not intended to retain the traits of its European progenitors. On the contrary, they sought to mitigate what were viewed by the industry as undesirable traits, such as large frame, too much milk, poor CE, etc. Yet, retain qualities such as depth, muscling, carcass quality, etc. To do that they introduced traits from other breeds. And yet, it looks like the Fullblood breeders have addressed these issues without outside influence. It could well be that I'm just sour because it appears the Simmental breed sold out to the black fad. I probably wouldn't feel this way if they hadn't lol. |
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Post by kentuckyguy on Jan 25, 2020 9:24:14 GMT -6
I just can’t turn a blind eye to the horrible milk numbers on a lot of these Simmental bulls. I feel my Simmentals milk EPD’s are pretty accurate. The ones with a milk EPD less than 20 barely have enough milk.
It’s just hard for me to breed to a bull with a milk EPD that low. Then when I keep a heifer and she doesn’t milk I would be upset with myself.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 9:27:48 GMT -6
I would also add that no breed has transformed itself more than the Angus breed, and they didn't open their herd book to do it.
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