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Post by tcranch on Jul 8, 2019 13:08:30 GMT -6
3-8 years depending on how much we like them, how easy they are to handle and how they survive life 300 days a year with a bunch of other bulls. Seems like ages 3-5 is when injuries get them and 5+ is when they develop the understanding that they really don’t have to do what you want them to do. Yep. About the time they get old enough to figure out they're top dog it's time for them to go. Otherwise they start tearing things up. You can't really MAKE them do anything. I used to rope one back leg and take it away from them every time they tried to fight or get away and that worked fairly well but if you sore them up they're hamburger. Bingo! Dick was my all time fave but he's the one that failed his BSE this year, he was 6. When I pulled the bulls last fall he did NOT want to leave his girls and of course all the bulls started fighting once they were comingled. Went out to check the next morning and he was bedded down in the ditch by the central pasture, directly across a large portion of fence that was completely destroyed, including broken t-posts. He wasn't interested in walking with me back his winter pasture so I called Hubby to help drive him down the road with the Polaris. Dick cooperated for all of 10 yards before he turned around & picked up the front of the Polaris - w/Hubby in it. He then set it back down, turned around & continued walking with me back to the winter pasture. I have no doubt he was just letting us know he didn't have to do a darn thing if he didn't want to. |
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Post by elkwc on Jul 8, 2019 21:34:08 GMT -6
Our goal is to jeep until 8-10 years of age. Will sell an 9 y/0 this fall. It seems with the current bloodlines in the Angus and Hereford breeds it is less likely a bull will last that long. Longtivity has been lost. Unfortunately, that's about right, very few bulls would make it that long. We are flying if we get much past 3 years out of one. That is the main reason I hesitate to pay 5,000 for a bull when it is likely I may only get 1-2 calf crops by him. I told one breeder I would pay his asking price if he would guarantee him to last until at least 7 years of age. He declined. I can't justify giving 5,000 for one calf crop. I bought 3 bulls this year and one will be gone before next season. |
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Post by luckyp on Jul 9, 2019 5:10:18 GMT -6
Longterm studies have shown that most bulls begin having major fertility issues by age 7 - if they last that long.
Sure, some go longer, but not most.
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Post by luckyp on Jul 9, 2019 5:13:09 GMT -6
In a commercial herd, I see no problem with a bull breeding his daughters - provided there are no recessive defects hiding in the woodpile, and you like what he brings to the table.
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Post by bulltrader on Jul 9, 2019 5:33:09 GMT -6
Longterm studies have shown that most bulls begin having major fertility issues by age 7 - if they last that long. Sure, some go longer, but not most. Why do bulls go bad so young and cows will last 15 years or longer? |
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Post by dw on Jul 9, 2019 6:23:29 GMT -6
Semen check, dont care how old they are. As long as they are sound, working and not shooting blanks. Same here |
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Post by franklinridgefarms on Jul 9, 2019 6:46:23 GMT -6
Unfortunately, that's about right, very few bulls would make it that long. We are flying if we get much past 3 years out of one. That is the main reason I hesitate to pay 5,000 for a bull when it is likely I may only get 1-2 calf crops by him. I told one breeder I would pay his asking price if he would guarantee him to last until at least 7 years of age. He declined. I can't justify giving 5,000 for one calf crop. I bought 3 bulls this year and one will be gone before next season. That's exactly where I am at too, I was buying 2-3 a year for while and when paying $2000 was bad enough, then they got up to over $3000. Paid over $4000 for one to replace another mid season and by the middle of the breeding season the next year that rascal was walking right through fences not staying with the group of heifers I needed him with so he went down the road at about 1/4 of what I paid for him. I started raising my own after all that, we had been lucky to get more than one season out of probably 1/3 bulls. With my own bulls, I have been able to get a couple more years use out of them, I usually send them down the road at 4-5 years and I am not at a loss to replace those. I came to the conclusion that buying some of those high price bulls was akin to buying high price equipment that turns out to be junk after a few times of use. I know there are lots of good ones out there, just not willing or able to take many chances like that, when my bulls will give me a calf just the same. |
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Post by franklinridgefarms on Jul 9, 2019 6:50:51 GMT -6
Longterm studies have shown that most bulls begin having major fertility issues by age 7 - if they last that long. Sure, some go longer, but not most. Why do bulls go bad so young and cows will last 15 years or longer? The sad thing is a lot of cows nowadays won't do much better than the bulls. I would get hammered over yonder at that other place, for this statement, hope it doesn't offend anyone here, cause that ain't my intention, but some of the commercial cattle and not so modern and mainstream registered cows will outlast and out perform some of those new fancy registered cows. |
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Post by farmerjan on Jul 9, 2019 9:39:22 GMT -6
We try to keep a bull as long as can be if we like the calves. Because we rent several different places, we have many bulls. We can take care of them not breeding their daughters that some with limited pastures/places cannot. Most are 6-10 years old when they leave. Attitude is first probably with BSE the second. If they are not doing their job then they go. Am selling one that has been on loan to someone who had a bull come up shooting blanks. He won't stay in when he has nothing to do, gets to fighting everyone in the bull lot inbetween breeding seasons. Torn up alot of fencing this past year. If he didn't have this temp job, he would have been gone already. Occasionally have someone needing an older bull so we can let one go for a few more years use. Have some all the way from 2013 to 2017.
Feet and legs are another determining factor. If they can't get around, they can't breed and we have some hilly pastures so they need good feet and legs to stay with the cows in the rotational grazing too.
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Post by okie on Jul 9, 2019 11:08:22 GMT -6
Why do bulls go bad so young and cows will last 15 years or longer? The sad thing is a lot of cows nowadays won't do much better than the bulls. I would get hammered over yonder at that other place, for this statement, hope it doesn't offend anyone here, cause that ain't my intention, but some of the commercial cattle and not so modern and mainstream registered cows will outlast and out perform some of those new fancy registered cows. I agree. I've always treated registered cattle just like commercial cattle. It's a disservice to the customers if it's not done that way. Plus, way to many times I've seen average EPD calves from real world genetics outperform "modern" genetics. |
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Post by ufbeef on Jul 9, 2019 18:40:30 GMT -6
In a commercial herd, I see no problem with a bull breeding his daughters - provided there are no recessive defects hiding in the woodpile, and you like what he brings to the table. No...that's a problem, lack of genetic diversity will cause all sorts of issues from performance to reproductive. I darn sure wouldnt ever do it. |
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Post by M-5 on Jul 9, 2019 18:46:53 GMT -6
In a commercial herd, I see no problem with a bull breeding his daughters - provided there are no recessive defects hiding in the woodpile, and you like what he brings to the table. No...that's a problem, lack of genetic diversity will cause all sorts of issues from performance to reproductive. I darn sure wouldnt ever do it. One generation is no issue. 2 gens is doable but most consider it terminal. It's been done for generations and acceptable as line breeding. |
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Post by Jake on Jul 9, 2019 18:51:54 GMT -6
In a commercial herd, I see no problem with a bull breeding his daughters - provided there are no recessive defects hiding in the woodpile, and you like what he brings to the table. No...that's a problem, lack of genetic diversity will cause all sorts of issues from performance to reproductive. I darn sure wouldnt ever do it. Will take more than one generation of inbreeding to see those issues surface. We kept some heifers out of our clean up heifer bull, sure wan’t going to buy another bull just to cover 5 heifers. If they didn’t stick AI he will cover them. |
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Post by workinonit on Jul 9, 2019 18:56:38 GMT -6
3-8 years depending on how much we like them, how easy they are to handle and how they survive life 300 days a year with a bunch of other bulls. Seems like ages 3-5 is when injuries get them and 5+ is when they develop the understanding that they really don’t have to do what you want them to do. Similar here, except for the time with other bulls and injury from having been with other bulls. Same thing, though, with the age of 5+ developing an "attitude". The oldest one I've had here was 7. A friend had one, a Brahma, for 17 years and that old bull remained fertile till he died. |
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Post by farmerjan on Jul 9, 2019 19:42:44 GMT -6
We had a reg. Red Poll that was pushing 13 when we had to send him. He had gotten a bone broken in his hock at about 8, vet said unlikely he would ever be able to breed and he should go. but we asked what if, if we kept him.... so he got 6 months rest with the sheep and recovered to continue to breed until he was 13. He had arthritis in that joint and it was getting painful for him to get up and down and we knew he could not take another winter so sadly sent him directly on a truck to slaughter. Both my son and I shed a few tears.
Have one now that is probably 9 or 10 and doing just fine. Most are 2012,2013, 2014 models, have one born in 2016 and one in 2017. Guess we have 10, at present. We lease a couple out on occasion to neighbors with 15-20 cows so they don't have to buy and deal with a bull. We bought a couple of cows carrying ET's and raised both and have kept them as bulls. Nice calves, good dispositions, easy to work with. Both cows were idiots and are gone. They are putting nice decent calves on the ground. I think they were born in 2014.
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