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Post by elkwc on Jul 9, 2019 21:55:47 GMT -6
Longterm studies have shown that most bulls begin having major fertility issues by age 7 - if they last that long. Sure, some go longer, but not most. In the past we have never had fertility or structural issues. Six years ago we had 7 bulls. One 3 y/o and the rest 8-10 y/o. All sound and fertile. The next year at 11 we had 2 bulls go bad and replaced them. Sold another at 9 and still fertile and sound. Since we have started replacing them and using modern bloodlines we have experienced many issues. From 1963-1996 my Uncle managed a 44,000 acre ranch and 1,000 cows and 40-50 bulls. Over that time his bulls avg around 8 years of age when culled. We are now looking for older bloodlines in order to get the longtivity back. We have also found that the daughters of the modern bloodlines don't last as long. IMO many breeders have bought into the rapid generation turn over. They use AI sires that are done in a few years. So no idea how they will hold up. In order for me to justify 5-6 thousand for a bull I need him to last until 8 years of age. I asked one breeder how he would like it if that new Dodge diesel he bought only lasted a year? If he would still be willing to give over 50,000 for it. He said no. I said I feel the same about a bull that lasts a year. We bought 3 bulls this year. One will be sold this fall with structural issues. We have retained 4 bulls we've raised and so far they are lasting better. One is 9 years old and tested very good before breeding season. |
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Post by ufbeef on Jul 10, 2019 3:28:59 GMT -6
No...that's a problem, lack of genetic diversity will cause all sorts of issues from performance to reproductive. I darn sure wouldnt ever do it. One generation is no issue. 2 gens is doable but most consider it terminal. It's been done for generations and acceptable as line breeding. It worked great for the S Gert breed. There may not be an visible physical defects, but there is darn sure performance issues, any time you reduce the genetic diversity that much, you are losing. Hybrid Vigor is a wonderful thing. |
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Post by M-5 on Jul 10, 2019 4:50:16 GMT -6
One generation is no issue. 2 gens is doable but most consider it terminal. It's been done for generations and acceptable as line breeding. It worked great for the S Gert breed. There may not be an visible physical defects, but there is darn sure performance issues, any time you reduce the genetic diversity that much, you are losing. Hybrid Vigor is a wonderful thing. Apples and grapefruit . Sire and daughter does not create a new breed. |
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Post by chuckie on Aug 15, 2019 10:53:32 GMT -6
As long as the bull produces good calves he can stay. But when he fails to get the herd pregnant, then I have no choice but to send him to the sale. I hate to see a good bull go that has given me good service. My heart is soft.
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Post by highgrit on Aug 15, 2019 11:40:04 GMT -6
I sell our bulls whenever I can find a buyer, or before 5 years of age. I've always got a little more than I paid for them private treaty. I'd hate to send a decent bull to slaughter, but refuse to pass a problem off to someone selling private treaty. Most of the time a bull is to big for my liking at 4 years. We've never had any bull issues, besides one breaking a front claw off this year. I had the bull loaded up for slaughter and M5 told me "a bad front isn't a big deal" and today you'd never know he was ever limping. I'm debating on if I should sell him private treaty or just take him to the stockyard.
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Post by bootjackbulls on Aug 16, 2019 14:55:21 GMT -6
Most here already know, but I keep bulls much longer than most because of the nature of our program. Aside from breeding the females in our (my family's) own herds, I lease and sell bulls too. As long as they are sound, docile, pass a BSE and have a demand, I keep them working. I usually start with a fresh group of weanlings each fall, 10-15 head sourced from our own herds or others I find reputable and compatible. Over the course of their first winter, they get worked, developed and culled. By the time they are ready to go to work, I will have that group whittled down to 4-6 head to add to my line-up. Every year, the number from that age group will decrease, with sales and continual culling, until they are 5,6,7, or even older and there is only the very best one or 2 from that group left. I look at every time they come in the barn as a test, no matter their age. If they can't stand quiet in the chute for clipping, nose rings and tags, testing and vaccinating, and handled with ease, they go straight out the chute to the loading dock and onto a trailer. I have high demands of them, especially in regards to performance and docility. If they can't meet those standards, they are gone, no second chances. That said, I have several that have stood the test of time, and are no where near done working. Maxxum will be 10 next month, and Titan is not far behind at 9 1/2.
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Post by randy on Aug 16, 2019 17:19:58 GMT -6
Alot depends on how they are developed. Brought on slower and let get some seems to decrease the issues. The bigger better faster fed hard bulls are going to have more problems from the get go.
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Post by bootjackbulls on Aug 16, 2019 18:10:09 GMT -6
Alot depends on how they are developed. Brought on slower and let get some seems to decrease the issues. The bigger better faster fed hard bulls are going to have more problems from the get go. I agree 100%! I try to keep the long term health of them and my pocket book both in mind. I also try to make sure when I do source outside genetics, that the producer has the same frame of mind in that respect. |
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Post by dave on Aug 26, 2019 22:37:35 GMT -6
I know of one commercial guy who had a source of decent bulls in numbers. Every year he bought something like 36 yearling bulls. Ran them with the cows for 60 days and shipped all of them. He lost some money between purchase price and sale price but he figure it was less than it would cost to winter them. But the real bonus was not having them around all year allowed him to run more cows.
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