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Post by chuckie on Feb 14, 2020 9:01:41 GMT -6
I had horses for over 40 years in my life. When my job took up so much of my time; from the time I left home and returned, I would be gone 12 hours a day. Then I had a big yard to keep mowed as I was single for 12 years. Now I find myself thinking about a horse a lot. I have been looking at yearlings on the internet, as it seems that this area lost interest in horses. I see the ones they advertise in "Equinenow.com" and "Horseclicks." It is amazing the prices they ask for the babies and horses. Many that look nice, they want $8500. Sure, they are pretty, but not all. I decided to look at the closest farms or ranches here. Some of these places are several hours away, so I want to know as much as I can about each one that interests me. The first person I was in contact with, got upset when I questioned a back leg when it could not place its's foot down straight when turned and limped. I was very nice and just asked if it had a problem. I passed one the horse when the owner got defensive. I have found a yearling that could be of some interest. She is a red roan, and I am not sure if I like the set of her rear legs. In really nice photos, she looks nice, but when they take pictures of her standing out in the pasture, she holds her back legs out behind her like a gaited horse. I am really picky about this even in a bull. If he stands with his legs way out behind him, I am concerned if he is not comfortable getting his legs up underneath him as it is very important in breeding soundness. It is important to me that the horse step in the same track when walking. A short stride in the back might be good for people using them as pleasure horses. But I want a horse to get those legs up underneath and turn. Too, it is just confirmation soundness. I have been looking at the Hancock breeding as they are the old style Quarter Horse. I do love the looks of the halter horses with the long thin necks, but they often are not the riding horses of the old cow horse breeding. Seems when they have a thicker neck, often they are a bit more laid back. The yearling I have been speaking back and forth about; I have asked for a video of this filly moving out from the side. I want to see if she cannot get her back legs forward. I said just a sloppy video where she is in the pasture coated with mud, would be fine. So far, I have not received that video.  If I like what I see, I will drive down to see her. I am about to write and ask if she places her back foot in the same track as the front foot when she walks. These people have been raising horses for a good while. They should know that these questions will be asked. Anyone else here that enjoys a good horse? |
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Post by chuckie on Feb 14, 2020 9:12:12 GMT -6
Here is a good example of what I am speaking of. This is a pretty colt, and might make a super pleasure horse. But if you watch the mechanics in the back end, the colt never reaches deep under the belly when it moves; very short strided. I am sure the lope would be great to ride on but I am afraid of how sound a colt like this would hold up when you started training for a roll back. If you look at the mare that it is following, which I assume is it's dam, she has serious problems with her back legs as well. Click on the video to watch the colt move. www.horseclicks.com/western-pleasure-prospect-/horses/1225512 |
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Post by okie on Feb 14, 2020 12:03:16 GMT -6
I've had a few hancocks. I liked them but they can be a real handful. If you find one with some jackie bee or two eyed jack in there it helps a lot. King 234 is another one that helps slow things down a little but they won't have the look you're after. They're just solid roman nose old ranch horses. Driftwood is always a good choice if you don't mind a big stout horse.
If you'd have posted this about two months ago I'd have set you up with someone in CA. An older gentleman that made ranch horses for a living passed away and they dispersed his herd. I don't think he ever sold anything over $2,000 but they were about as good as it gets. He specialized in hancocks but knew exactly what he was going to get with every mating. If they weren't something he would use himself they weren't for sale and he wouldn't sell the wrong horse to anyone. I bought two eighteen month old filly's from him several years ago for $1,000 each. At that price you can afford to ship them anywhere.
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Post by bootjackbulls on Feb 14, 2020 12:17:07 GMT -6
The fact is that a solid 95 percent of horse owners out there have no idea what they are looking at. They see a pretty little head and fancy names on a paper. This goes for both the sellers and the buyers. I am fortunate that my parents were true horsemen, and knew what they were looking at and where that came from. I will pick apart a horse down to the cowlicks on its face. Truly correct equine structure cannot be faked or impersonated. The ability to fill their tracks properly is sign they are correct in so many other aspects of build. I abhor the straight hocks and over knees so common in the halter ring. I despise what the pleasure ring has done to phenotype equally as much. I have shown in nearly every discipline (roping, penning, barrels and pole, trail, hunt seat, pleasure, halter, driving and jumping; even schooled in dressage), so it's not that I don't understand form following function. The problem is that most take the minimal variations needed for these disciplines far too far. I have 3 sorrel geldings in the pen right now. At first glance, one can hardly tell them apart. I, on the other hand, see in a heartbeat exactly what makes one a superior rope horse, one an excellent halter horse and another a stand-out barrel/arena horse.
Personally, I like an older style quarter type. Big bone, deep chested, wide based, 15 hands or less, smallish shell shaped feet, tons of flex in the hocks and poll, with a soft brown eye and a roman nose..... basically, built like a brick shyte house, with a good mind and a excellent set of wheels (I like going fast too!).
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Post by bootjackbulls on Feb 14, 2020 12:24:04 GMT -6
I've had a few hancocks. I liked them but they can be a real handful. If you find one with some jackie bee or two eyed jack in there it helps a lot. King 234 is another one that helps slow things down a little but they won't have the look you're after. They're just solid roman nose old ranch horses. Driftwood is always a good choice if you don't mind a big stout horse. If you'd have posted this about two months ago I'd have set you up with someone in CA. An older gentleman that made ranch horses for a living passed away and they dispersed his herd. I don't think he ever sold anything over $2,000 but they were about as good as it gets. He specialized in hancocks but knew exactly what he was going to get with every mating. If they weren't something he would use himself they weren't for sale and he wouldn't sell the wrong horse to anyone. I bought two eighteen month old filly's from him several years ago for $1,000 each. At that price you can afford to ship them anywhere. I love some Two Eyed Jack (super good minds), Three Bars (Yes, I know not a true QH, but I like to go FAST) and Skipper W. Throw in some Leo and some Doc Bar for a more stylish look. I'm also a sucker for a Dreamfinder bred Appy, as uncool as that is these days..... As a kid, I bought an own daughter of Skipper W. She was a wench of the highest degree. Never had her feet trimmed, didn't need it and wouldn't put up with it. Never broke to ride either. Was one heck of a brood mare though, and made right. I put her down at 32....and she still had plenty of hate in her old bones! |
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Post by chuckie on Feb 14, 2020 20:48:30 GMT -6
bootjackbulls, I can see that we could have a heck of a conversation if we were thrown together.
I too like the old style quarter horse. We like the same style horse for sure. A good short back, wide chest, big boned and I am not looking for a tiny tiny head. Just a head that fits the horse just what some might call too big as far as the halter world goes.
The only thing we don't completely agree on is the sizes. I like my horse right between 15-16 hands tall. But we are real close.
I am amazed how different the horses can look in so many pictures. One picture, the yearling has a nice long neck, and the next, it is a bit on the short side.
I owned a mare back in the 80's that was out of Jackie Bee. She was a sorrel and stood 15.2 -.3. I purchased her as an older broodmare and I really did like her.
I owned a Skipper W bred mare that was about the same size as the Jackie Bee mare. She was the old style and all her colts turned out just like her. I purchased her as a brood mare and tried to ride her one day just to see what she felt like. It was not a good ride. I like a real quite easy riding horse, and I had to fight her most of the way. She just refused to go forward at certain points and reminded me of the jokes about Mules! Ha-ha!! But her babies floated across the ground.
We were good as long as I didn't try to ride her. I didn't try again as I didn't buy her for that, and it was a waste of time as I was not going to ever ride her again. She could hit the ground hard when she started bucking. Anyway.....
I agree that people don't understand the mechanics that keep a horse sound or what makes it a smooth ride. Maybe they are hoping we have no idea what we are looking for and they just dance around and won't discuss it. If we don't know that their legs are off, then maybe we will pay what they want. Not sure if it is ignorance or hoping that I am ignorant.
Thank you for discussing this with me. I have truly enjoyed it.
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Post by chuckie on Feb 15, 2020 8:50:50 GMT -6
This is a really good video for someone to watch. This man can help someone that is trying to make a decision when buying a horse.
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Post by chuckie on Feb 15, 2020 9:01:26 GMT -6
This video was good as well.
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Post by chuckie on Feb 15, 2020 9:25:02 GMT -6
I've had a few hancocks. I liked them but they can be a real handful. If you find one with some jackie bee or two eyed jack in there it helps a lot. King 234 is another one that helps slow things down a little but they won't have the look you're after. They're just solid roman nose old ranch horses. Driftwood is always a good choice if you don't mind a big stout horse. If you'd have posted this about two months ago I'd have set you up with someone in CA. An older gentleman that made ranch horses for a living passed away and they dispersed his herd. I don't think he ever sold anything over $2,000 but they were about as good as it gets. He specialized in hancocks but knew exactly what he was going to get with every mating. If they weren't something he would use himself they weren't for sale and he wouldn't sell the wrong horse to anyone. I bought two eighteen month old filly's from him several years ago for $1,000 each. At that price you can afford to ship them anywhere. Okie, I wish that I could find a good source for a decent horse. I see so many that are suitable for pleasure riding, but not so much for being athletic. I am not going to burn the world up with a horse, but I want it to be sound for what I ask it to do. I would have liked to see the horses you are speaking of from California. When you are bored, if you have pictures of the two eighteen month old filly that you purchased a while back, I would love to see them. |
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Post by chuckie on Feb 16, 2020 20:38:29 GMT -6
I have seen quite a few nice looking young horses on line, and they post a picture of them that does not allow you to see how they stand or how their necks tie in to their shoulders. They will send various pictures that really don't give you an idea what you need to know. Then when you ask for a video of the horse walking out, they say they don't have a video, but they would be glad for you to come by and see the horse in person.
I wrote her back and said the video would allow me to see if I needed to get in the truck and head her way or not.
Why would anyone bother trying to draw people hundreds of miles away and not give them the information needed since they don't live 30 minutes away. To me, a video of one walking will tell me if I need to drive several hours to look closer. I often feel they are hiding something. I think if they were serious about selling the baby, then they would do what they had to do even if you made a sloppy iPhone video to send.
I found a filly that I liked and asked for a video of her walking and she said it was too muddy to get one. If you want a video of my horse walking, I can find plenty of spots so you can see where a horse places their feet. I did some more digging on this one as I really liked her, and found her on facebook where the filly was extremely buckled over in the knees when born, and was standing on the front of the hooves like I see some bull calves. They showed several pictures, then the filly showed up what looked like a clinic, where the legs were wrapped with cotton and webbing. According to the pictures, it went on for a while.
I do not mind it being a little wobbly kneed for a few days, but not to go to that extent to get straightened out. I was glad that I ran across those photos. She was a beautiful bay roan with so little white in the forehead.
I wish I could just ride down the road and find someone who sells good colts. We had one guy that was really big into raising and showing AQHA horses, but someone he knew was visiting him at his house and cornered him in the walk in closet of his house and blew his brains out.
I bought a few good horses from him over the years.
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Post by chuckie on Feb 16, 2020 20:44:18 GMT -6
I would love to go to the Billings Montana Livestock sale February 20,21,and 22. They are selling quite a few horses. I did the mapquest thing and it said it was almost a 23 hour drive. So, I guess that is out.
Has anyone ever gone to that sale?
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Post by dave on Feb 23, 2020 9:27:12 GMT -6
I would love to go to the Billings Montana Livestock sale February 20,21,and 22. They are selling quite a few horses. I did the mapquest thing and it said it was almost a 23 hour drive. So, I guess that is out. Has anyone ever gone to that sale? I have never been to the Billings Livestock sale. But I have gone to the Real Ranch Horses sale which is held just outside of Billings. It is a three day deal but not three days of selling like they do at Billings. Horses are consigned by invitation. Not a bunch of horse trader stuff. Horses are vet checked and inspected by a panel of horsemen. They have to pass inspection to be allowed in the sale. Big arena where horses are rode, roped off of, etc. You can ride them before the sale. They aren't sold cheap by any means but they are darn sure what they are advertised to be.
I had a Skipper W gelding who was broke good enough. But he was just stupid and would shy away from most anything. I am getting too old for a horse that is going to jump 20 sideways for any old excuse. Years ago I had a Music Mount bred gelding. Give him a day off and he would flat buck your backside off. And that was back in the days when I was riding bucking horse in rodeos. I had a King bred gelding that was solid as a rock. He was my rope horse. He would run right with triple A head horses and cattle. I could rope, ride out of the arena and put my 5 year old daughter up on him and turn my back and walk away with no worries. You just have to go through a lot of horses to find that kind.
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Post by chuckie on Feb 23, 2020 15:46:30 GMT -6
![]() Dave, yes you are so right about going through quite a few horses to find that special one. Sounds like you have had some colorful horses!! Ha-ha!! I have had my share of both too. I have had two really good horses. Others were good, but not outstanding. I wonder if the Skipper W line is a bucking breed?? I had a mare that was the same way. But her colts did not act like she did. I found a yearling that I am going to pick up this weekend or the next. I just have to wait to see what the weather does. I looked at him Friday, and I did like him. I will enclose a picture of him at the bottom of the page. The man that handles him is in the picture with him. I like the colt a lot. I found a 10 year old mare too that I like a lot. I am going to see her tomorrow. She looks really good but I am questioning her back legs. The man said that she was great, but maybe he thinks I don't know what I am looking at. When I questioned the back legs, he said the mare could slide into the next day. If that is the case, then she is just standing odd in the picture. She gets her hocks well up underneath her, but she is standing close on the back. That sort of concerns me. I will know by tomorrow I suppose after driving 4 hours to see her. Ugh!!  Attachments:
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Post by bootjackbulls on Feb 24, 2020 12:04:27 GMT -6
Chuckie, that's a good looking colt. Rugged, big boned, sound and muscular, but with clean legs and a nice front end. Put a few spots on him, and he'd be really awesome lol! I like his stance in the picture too. It says "I know you are back there mister and I'm paying attention, but I'm not too particularly concerned". I'm curious to see pictures of the mare you are looking at...
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Post by chuckie on Feb 28, 2020 7:11:12 GMT -6
Thanks Bootjackbulls!! I was concerned about how high he had his head in the picture, but with the guy putting pressure on his neck while hugging him up, I just could not tell much. But when I went to see him, he carried his head right with his withers or slightly above. He has two tiny white socks in the back but did not know it until I went to look at him. The sire is a pretty horse, but a bit thin through the flanks. But I see that he took on the mare's thicker loin/flank area. I am just so excited to get him home. I pick him up Sunday and I cannot wait! I feel like it is my birthday and Christmas as a child; all bundled together.  Sorta silly I know, but it feels good. I bought a mare to put with him who I will raise a few colts with. |
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