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Post by highgrit on Jul 12, 2019 5:46:50 GMT -6
I've pretty much decided to raise my own bulls and see what the results are. My thinking is, whatever we raise has excelled under our management style so his calves should also? Every registered bull we sell has been exposed to creep feed from day one, or they can't make weight for the bull evaluation test sales. I'm not looking for that in my commercial herd, actually just the opposite. I'm trying to convince myself that as long as I don't cross breed, my bulls can produce what I need and will work in our management style?
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Post by M-5 on Jul 12, 2019 5:52:49 GMT -6
I see no reason not to for a season or 2 just to get benchmark. I have been tickled with mine this year except for him not being homozygous black. I got alot of reds this year . I wasn't worried about it because I was gonna sell to a feed lot they don't care about color . But I got a letter a couple weeks ago they have stopped buying for facility upgrades.
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Post by talltimber on Jul 12, 2019 5:59:23 GMT -6
I raised my first one last year. He’s on spring cows right now, had him on his sisters last fall. We will see what kind of mess we have. His momma is one of my older cows, plenty of frame and good bag and feet. Never dr’d for a thing or babysitted
I fed him with his fall mates then turned him in with a two yr old bull. Fed very little because the bigger bull would run him off. He’s holding up well in this heat
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Post by highgrit on Jul 12, 2019 6:05:36 GMT -6
I see no reason not to for a season or 2 just to get benchmark. I have been tickled with mine this year except for him not being homozygous black. I got alot of reds this year . I wasn't worried about it because I was gonna sell to a feed lot they don't care about color . But I got a letter a couple weeks ago they have stopped buying for facility upgrades. Personally I'd never put a crossbred bull on my cows, there's no telling what might show up. |
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Post by franklinridgefarms on Jul 12, 2019 6:06:47 GMT -6
I don't see any reason not to either. I have over the years kept sons of AI bulls that we raised as well as ones from walking herd bulls. In most all cases I think they were as good as about any bull that we have bought on average. One thing that I like about that is that if they don't work out you aren't out near as much money as if you had bought it. I am not even opposed to using a crossbred bull, depending on the breeding of the cows. It may not work out great, but I currently have a 3/4 Angus, 1/4 Hereford bull calf that I have left a bull. May use him on some straight bred Hereford cows.
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Post by highgrit on Jul 12, 2019 6:30:27 GMT -6
I don't see any reason not to either. I have over the years kept sons of AI bulls that we raised as well as ones from walking herd bulls. In most all cases I think they were as good as about any bull that we have bought on average. One thing that I like about that is that if they don't work out you aren't out near as much money as if you had bought it. I am not even opposed to using a crossbred bull, depending on the breeding of the cows. It may not work out great, but I currently have a 3/4 Angus, 1/4 Hereford bull calf that I have left a bull. May use him on some straight bred Hereford cows. I don't see it like that and that's what has given me doubts. My thinking is that I won't know much till after his first calf crop grows out? So that means if he's a dud I'll have two calf crops that I'm not happy with. Two years wasted experimenting and trying to re - invent the wheel is one heck of a risk IMO. |
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Post by franklinridgefarms on Jul 12, 2019 7:16:36 GMT -6
I don't see any reason not to either. I have over the years kept sons of AI bulls that we raised as well as ones from walking herd bulls. In most all cases I think they were as good as about any bull that we have bought on average. One thing that I like about that is that if they don't work out you aren't out near as much money as if you had bought it. I am not even opposed to using a crossbred bull, depending on the breeding of the cows. It may not work out great, but I currently have a 3/4 Angus, 1/4 Hereford bull calf that I have left a bull. May use him on some straight bred Hereford cows. I don't see it like that and that's what has given me doubts. My thinking is that I won't know much till after his first calf crop grows out? So that means if he's a dud I'll have two calf crops that I'm not happy with. Two years wasted experimenting and trying to re - invent the wheel is one heck of a risk IMO. I see your point, however there is no guarantee that anybody is always going to buy a bull that doesn't carry that same risk. Now BH over there would disagree with that. The most expensive bull I have bought, only got a year and a half of use out of him, sold him for 1/4 what I paid. On top of that his calves were some of the worst doing one we have ever had. I do believe that it is very possible to raise a bull as good as one can buy within reason. |
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Post by tillhill on Jul 12, 2019 7:40:51 GMT -6
I don't see it like that and that's what has given me doubts. My thinking is that I won't know much till after his first calf crop grows out? So that means if he's a dud I'll have two calf crops that I'm not happy with. Two years wasted experimenting and trying to re - invent the wheel is one heck of a risk IMO. I see your point, however there is no guarantee that anybody is always going to buy a bull that doesn't carry that same risk. Now BH over there would disagree with that. The most expensive bull I have bought, only got a year and a half of use out of him, sold him for 1/4 what I paid. On top of that his calves were some of the worst doing one we have ever had. I do believe that it is very possible to raise a bull as good as one can buy within reason. I'd argue without AI work and keeping some pretty good BW, WW, YW records along with at least 3 Generation of AI or proven walking bulls you can raise one cheaper than you can buy one. $1,000 opportunity cost lost when you don't sell him as a steer. Minimun $3 day to feed bull and taking up pen space that could be used. For me wean in October and turn bulls out June so 210 days on feed. $30 semen check plus time and effort and oh dang he didn't pass so now he is worth $800 as a cull bull. And you haven't even paid yourself for all the stuff he wrecked all winter! If guys shop around you can find the bull that fits all your needs and save yourself a lot of work and money IMO. |
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Post by franklinridgefarms on Jul 12, 2019 8:14:30 GMT -6
I see your point, however there is no guarantee that anybody is always going to buy a bull that doesn't carry that same risk. Now BH over there would disagree with that. The most expensive bull I have bought, only got a year and a half of use out of him, sold him for 1/4 what I paid. On top of that his calves were some of the worst doing one we have ever had. I do believe that it is very possible to raise a bull as good as one can buy within reason. I'd argue without AI work and keeping some pretty good BW, WW, YW records along with at least 3 Generation of AI or proven walking bulls you can raise one cheaper than you can buy one. $1,000 opportunity cost lost when you don't sell him as a steer. Minimun $3 day to feed bull and taking up pen space that could be used. For me wean in October and turn bulls out June so 210 days on feed. $30 semen check plus time and effort and oh dang he didn't pass so now he is worth $800 as a cull bull. And you haven't even paid yourself for all the stuff he wrecked all winter! If guys shop around you can find the bull that fits all your needs and save yourself a lot of work and money IMO. In my opinion, it just comes down to what anybody is comfortable with doing. I see pros and cons with both retaining and buying. If you find any kind of bull at all its going to cost $1800-2000 around her for a yearling bull and that's the lower end, which admittedly in some cases some of those are as good as some that are priced at $2500-$3500. We wean around August and turn bulls out usually late April. Those young bulls do take up space, but generally don't tear up much at their age. It just seems that we have had a lot of issues with purchased bulls of different breeds from a range of outfits. If I have $2000-over $4000 (that over 4000 was very likely that last time I will ever put that much into one) in a bull and something goes wrong that first year or the next, then I have no choice but to sell him at commercial price and take whatever loss, then have to go and replace him then in my estimation I am better off to leave a couple calves as bulls. My way of thinking that is an insurance policy of sorts. I truly believe there isn't a necessarily one size fits all right way, I'm not opposed to either train of thought. I am currently using 3 bulls, 2 home raised and 1 purchased. |
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Post by randy on Jul 12, 2019 14:09:23 GMT -6
If you have good producing cow and a bull that is producing good calves why wouldn't it work? Thats all any other breeder out there is doing. That brookhill like thinking isn't doing you any good.
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Post by jehosofat on Jul 12, 2019 14:17:59 GMT -6
That brookhill like thinking isn't doing you any good. Damn, just slap the shit out of him, why don't ya. 😁😁😁 |
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Post by randy on Jul 12, 2019 14:59:16 GMT -6
That brookhill like thinking isn't doing you any good. Damn, just slap the shit out of him, why don't ya. 😁😁😁 If you have no confidence in your own breeding why on earth would you sell it to some one else? |
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Post by highgrit on Jul 12, 2019 16:45:42 GMT -6
Damn, just slap the shit out of him, why don't ya. 😁😁😁 If you have no confidence in your own breeding why on earth would you sell it to some one else? Randy I hate to admit this, but the bulls we sell at the evaluation test sales won't work in our management style. I've tried it and the bulls just won't hold up to being pushed on our ground without supplementing them more than my cows. Reasonable care to me means nothing more than what a nursing cow gets. I hear all the claims about EPD's and this and that breeder but its all BS. High milk and high WW cost money when your having to buying the feed. |
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Post by randy on Jul 12, 2019 18:03:50 GMT -6
If you have no confidence in your own breeding why on earth would you sell it to some one else? Randy I hate to admit this, but the bulls we sell at the evaluation test sales won't work in our management style. I've tried it and the bulls just won't hold up to being pushed on our ground without supplementing them more than my cows. Reasonable care to me means nothing more than what a nursing cow gets. I hear all the claims about EPD's and this and that breeder but its all BS. High milk and high WW cost money when your having to buying the feed. Stop buying bull test bulls. Find someone thats being doing it right and buy from them or find AI bulls that work. You know those test station bulls have had the hell fed out of them. |
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Post by jehosofat on Jul 12, 2019 18:13:06 GMT -6
Grit, come up here and buy a BM bull from the guy I'm getting my bulls from. You'll thank me soon enough.
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